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July 15, 2004


Steve Hebert

The worst is the Obsolete Language Snob. I met a FoxPro language snob recently - how embarrassing for that poor moron.

Why doesn't he just jump up and down and yell "I'm a crappy developer!"


nice...i totally forgot about that kind of Snob subtype. where the fuck do you find guys like that?? i though foxpro went the same way as rbase and paradox...


Nice article =)

One of my favourite bug-bears is the attitude that all programmers are men. (dig dig)


Hi Phil:

Once again you nailed it right on the head and you came up with the perfect description of these jokers. I mean, you can write shit in C++ or C# - just ask blunderman or any of the wannabe programmers I've written about. Sure, it's harder in C++, but some of these guys are good enough to copy and paste. About two weeks ago, some support fuck that we sold our PDA application to ordered a bunch of PDA's with bluetooth even though he knew that the govt regs prohibited it for what he was doing. Numb nuts claims he's a programmer because he knows Access and had HTML in college. Anyway, we told him we weren't allowed to deploy that solutino b/c of the govt regs well before he bought the things. He thought he could muscle the regulation nazi's at the va. So anyway, he gets busted and is really pissed off. So he starts this shit that our stuff is a security violation b/c we only encrypt the file during transfer but we don't prompt the user for a password (when you transfer data via web services what he's saying doesn't really apply). So I'm talking to his networking security dude who's telling me my app sucks b/c his people asked to have the security checks disabled and then afterward used it in an insecure manner. But get this, he tells me tghat the IRDA transfer part of the app is really great and that his boy wrote a really good program. So this fuck is claiming that the app I wrote is insecure b/c he demanded that the encryption be turned off and asked that the passwords be disabled - and that the only secure part of it is the IRDA transfer (which I WROTE) that his boy wrote. Blunderman demands changes in my app, then blames me for those changes that he demands, and then runs around claiming that we wrote a critical piece of MY app and that's how he knows it sucks.

So this dickhead has the BALLS to start asking me questions the other day about the app. As pissed as I am, I have to shut up b/c this dude is buddies with the contracting officer and he's a customer. And then this fuckhead says "So what did you write it in?" (Since he claims he wrote the hardest part I wantged to ask him what the fuck he's asking me for). I tell him the .NET Compact Framework and he says "Which language". I said C#. So he tells me that .NET is lame and that I should have written it in C++ and if he was writing it he would have done it in C++. This is the same dumbass that calls us up with 'technical problems" and asks us for help - he says he's a programmer and that he wants to figure it out - so he insists it's our program that's busted, but he asks generic questions like "Umm, well I know how to code it, but I need to know the basic approach - let's say that you had 4 teams of 6 players each. Two of the teams can share a goalie. How would I be able to list the teams and use overloaded operators to compare them for equality". So I'm like, Jesse, what does that have to do with our app. And he's like "Well, I'm just coming up with an example that you can visualize - I know the problem is the same as tghis one so if you can just answer this for me I can figure it out. Yes, literally this fuck calls us up at work and tries to get me to do his homework - while pretending that his "football" problem is actually something wrong with our app. Or that he needs to have it use recursion to traverse a two way linked list (and often he really screws up the requirements) ----- Then this fucker tells me that .NET is lame and that I should write in C++

I mention it b/c it's typical. If you can really code then you're too busy learning how to do shit better than to worry about what you wrote it in . We should challenge each of these bastards to a RoeShamBow!

Sean Schade

Excellent! You are too funny!



tracey: your right. i've definitely suffered from that myself...however one of the other stereotypes i'm going to be writing about at a later date will take care of that.

bill: man, my heart goes out...i feel your pain buddy. between complete fucking moronic customer requests vs. usage, requirements and homework assignments, i could write a fucking book. i'll be writing more about this kind of thing in the future...especially the "homework assignments" (which is just good ol' typical programmer laziness)

sean: thanks!


This is a great post...

I personally have to laugh at the choosers of a certain scripting language that always stamp the "Use my language because it's well documented" and "there lot's a free hot scripts" behind their reason for choosing that particular language. Then they offer a link to some flippin email thread as proof of documentation. Are you kidding me?

I think Gunnerson put it best that there are 2 types of programmers...

Those that choose a language as a lifestyle choice and those that choose the best language for the job at hand. These folks are absolutely on different sides of the fence.

It's pretty obvious that the lifestyle chooser is the defender of the language.


You didn't even mention Haskell or Miranda. Do yourself a favor and learn a pure functional language. Then you'll see why some of us get so worked up about our tools.


vb: thanks, and i agree.

mr. imperativelanguagessuck: i briefly mentioned lisp.


There are two things I can't stand in this world ... People who are intolerant of other people's languages... and FoxPro programmers.

Only a bloody imperative language man would think that Lisp is purely functional. THE VIRTUE of Haskell is it makes no concessions to side-effects. Referential transparency just gives me so much more POWER.


hysterical... my office is rolling around in tears ;-)

*blog added to the list of many to watch*


How do you know your a computer geek? You read crap like this... an article about programming languages, about how bad they are...
Wow, we can waste time reading stupid rubbish like this... why be a developer when you hate coding and everyone that can program?


This is without and beyond a shadow of a doubt the best article on language wars I have read in years. Thank you, thank you, thank you ... its beautiful.



I'm here reading this because I've recently been frustrated with Smalltalk (MT GUI sucks, VAST building sucks). I come from a background of Microsoft (VB.net, C++, etc). I'm starting to find myself falling into a new category:

Young Veteran: Fresh out of college and having to pick up languages that weren't even offered as classes. This know-it-all compares new languages to his limited experience and finds them lacking.

My quote recently around work has been: "This would never happen in C++"

C'est la vie. There is always more to learn.

Stereotype Buster

Beyond computer language snobbery there's also English language snobbery including the stereotypical desire programmers have to use profanity and antagonizing language.

Increasingly, programmers are working alongside non-technical professionals and success depends on undoing classic stereotypes. http://www.TechTact.org illustrates advanced stereotype busting tactics.

Anonymous Coward

this would be funny... if java and C* didn't ACTUALLY suck ass and were therefore worth defending hateful attacks on.

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i like this part of the blog:"tell him your moronic BlunderMan boss is making you buy it for him
oh, wait...nevermind. this response is a disaster because you'll probably get some sort of response like, "yeah dude!!...like i totally know what you mean, man!" thereby inducing more garbage from this guy as opposed to just shutting him the hell up." is very good

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